Computer-Chess Wiki Forum

Fire 4 - the experts speech

Gerhard — Mon, 30 Nov 2015 15:40:40 +0000

Reply by Gerhard, Monday, November 30, 2015, 15:40:

Hi Ron

Have already contacted one expert, but waiting for reply.
In the meanwhile i found this thread ....

The experts speech:

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?start=10&t=56658&topic_view=threads

You only get success to this thread when you are member of talkchess

... more i must not know .... i will not include it to my tournament

Best to you
Gerhard

Fire 4 - put it into tournament?

Ron — Mon, 30 Nov 2015 01:23:42 +0000

Reply by Ron, Monday, November 30, 2015, 01:23:

Hi Gerhard,

All of the authors in your similarity tests have unclear reputations with Norman probably being the cleanest of them (lately). Maybe you could contact other tournament directors and discus your concerns. Maybe: Guenther Simon, Werner Schüle and Graham Banks

Best regards,
Ron

Fire 4 - put it into tournament?

Gerhard — Thu, 26 Nov 2015 09:43:51 +0000

Reply by Gerhard, Thursday, November 26, 2015, 09:43:

on the other hand ...

on other lists

http://spcc.beepworld.de/top-bullet-list.htm

Fire 4 is close to close with Gull 3

18 Gull 3 x64 : 3113 3 3 24000 37.8 % 3200 40.4 %
19 Fire 4 x64 : 3102 3 3 24000 36.5 % 3201 40.1 %

also its a high number of remis games in compare to others, that must say truly nothing, but it can

19 Fire 4 x64 : 3102 24000 (+3934,=9635,-10431), 36.5 %

Stockfish 151015 x64 : 1000 (+ 70,=381,-549), 26.1 % Mars 3.42 x64 : 1000 (+300,=409,-291), 50.5 % Mars 3.41 x64 : 1000 (+300,=443,-257), 52.1 % Sugar Pro 1.0 x64 : 1000 (+ 74,=354,-572), 25.1 % Komodo 9.2 x64 : 1000 (+123,=334,-543), 29.0 % Stockfish 150817 x64 : 1000 (+ 89,=377,-534), 27.8 % Komodo 9.1 x64 : 1000 (+105,=376,-519), 29.3 % Stockfish 150604 x64 : 1000 (+ 91,=390,-519), 28.6 % Sugar 5.3b x64 : 1000 (+ 98,=399,-503), 29.8 % Stockfish 150510 x64 : 1000 (+ 93,=376,-531), 28.1 % Komodo 9 x64 : 1000 (+127,=349,-524), 30.1 % Sugar 150414 x64 : 1000 (+ 88,=396,-516), 28.6 % Stockfish 150410 x64 : 1000 (+118,=391,-491), 31.4 % Sugar 5.2a x64 : 1000 (+114,=390,-496), 30.9 % Sugar 5.1 x64s : 1000 (+112,=375,-513), 29.9 % Stockfish 6 150128 : 1000 (+116,=399,-485), 31.6 % Firenzina 2.4.3 x64s : 1000 (+350,=398,-252), 54.9 % Critter 1.6a x64 : 1000 (+277,=437,-286), 49.5 % Mars 3.35 x64 : 1000 (+327,=415,-258), 53.5 % Stockfish 150105 x64 : 1000 (+135,=398,-467), 33.4 % Komodo 8 x64 : 1000 (+179,=390,-431), 37.4 % Houdini 4 x64 : 1000 (+176,=387,-437), 37.0 % Gull 3 x64 : 1000 (+177,=609,-214), 48.1 % Equinox 3.3 x64 : 1000 (+295,=462,-243), 52.6 %

and its own number in sim-test is about 10 points less than others,
when add this 10 to the number Gull 3 gives we have about 58,
so it could be a modified Gull3 ? - i dont know

- its closed scource
- exe file is about 25mb = very very strange
- programmer reputation is not clear for me

... i change my mind = i will not add it to tournament

maybe someone convince me to do the contrary

Fire 4 - put it into tournament?

Gerhard — Thu, 26 Nov 2015 07:51:00 +0000

Reply by Gerhard, Thursday, November 26, 2015, 07:51:

on http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/404/

Fire 4 ist 10 elo above Critter 1.6a
and about 150 elo below Stockfish 6
also Gull 3 is round 30 elo above it

when it uses the "Twinfish-trick" to hack the sim-test

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51121&start=20

and

http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?tid=28444

it should have more relationship to Stockfish, but it has not ... so I think the engine is ok

Fire 4 - put it into tournament?

Gerhard — Thu, 26 Nov 2015 06:41:37 +0000

Reply by Gerhard, Thursday, November 26, 2015, 06:41:

i tend to put the engine into tournament

in the past the programmer was known as a bad boy, but he apologized and go on to step to a better guy. The sim test shows what he stated in his read me.

we know the sim test is only one of several parameters

someone having more knowledge in that case please let me know

Fire 4 read me

Gerhard — Thu, 26 Nov 2015 05:58:19 +0000

Reply by Gerhard, Thursday, November 26, 2015, 05:58:

Fire 4

a strong freeware UCI chess engine designed for modern Windows systems
by Norman Schmidt

included in this release:

new search
new and improved eval
humanistic analysis
extensive search, pst, and eval parameter tuning
improved material table initialization and phase calculation
thread local storage SMP up to 64 threads
common endgame eval routines
support for Syzygy endgame tablebases
significant increase in playing strength

Fire 4 has been completely re-engineered from top to bottom, and does not use any source code from (or closely related to) Ippolit.

Fire 3 - Similarity Test

Gerhard — Thu, 26 Nov 2015 05:56:11 +0000

Reply by Gerhard, Thursday, November 26, 2015, 05:56:

sim version 3
------ Fire 3.0 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0) ------
67.53 Firenzina 2.3.2 xTreme x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
65.74 Mars 1 noneSSE x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
65.62 Fire 2.2 xTreme NS 2014 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
64.69 Mars 3.42 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
64.34 PanChess 00.611 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
62.89 Houdini 1.5a w32 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
62.37 RobboLito 0.10 SMP w32 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
61.69 Bouquet 1.8 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
61.30 BlackMamba 2.0 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
61.12 IvanHoe 9.46b w32 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
60.48 RobboLite 0.085d3 w32 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
60.42 Strelka 5.5 x32 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
60.16 Strelka 6 w32 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
60.00 Critter 1.6a 32-bit (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
59.74 IvanHoe 9.87b w32 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
59.26 Equinox 3.20 x64mp (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
58.85 Equinox 3.30 x64mp (time: 101 ms scale: 1.0)
58.73 PanChess 00.611 x64 (time: 27 ms scale: 1.0)
58.11 Equinox 3.30 x64mp (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
54.83 Robbolito 0.10 (time: 26 ms scale: 1.0)
54.52 BlackMamba 1.0 w32 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
53.67 Naum 4.6 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
53.44 IvanHoe 999946b (time: 27 ms scale: 1.0)
53.41 Komodo TCECr 64-bit (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
53.37 Fire 2.2 (time: 27 ms scale: 1.0)
53.29 Gull 3 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
53.23 Murka 3 x64 UCI (time: 690 ms scale: 1.0)
53.17 Murka 3 x64 UCI (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
53.14 RobboLito 0.085d8 (time: 27 ms scale: 1.0)

Fire 4 - Similarity Test - Give me your opinion !

Gerhard — Thu, 26 Nov 2015 05:53:50 +0000

Posting by Gerhard, Thursday, November 26, 2015, 05:53:

sim version 3
------ Fire 4 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0) ------
58.90 Fire 4 x64 (time: 101 ms scale: 1.0)
48.22 Gull 3 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
45.29 Rybka 3 Human (time: 37 ms scale: 1.0)
45.11 Rybka 3 (time: 33 ms scale: 1.0)
44.90 RobboLito 0.085d3 (time: 27 ms scale: 1.0)
44.82 PanChess 00.611 x64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
44.71 Equinox 3.30 x64mp (time: 27 ms scale: 1.0)
44.70 Rybka 3 Dynamic (time: 42 ms scale: 1.0)
44.65 Strelka 6 w32 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
44.63 Robbolito 0.10 (time: 26 ms scale: 1.0)
44.63 RobboLite 0.085d3 w32 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
44.63 Philou 3.51 (time: 1208 ms scale: 1.0)
44.55 Houdini 1.00 (time: 29 ms scale: 1.0)
44.53 Rybka 2.3.2a 32-bit (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
44.48 Rybka 1.1 (time: 121 ms scale: 1.0)
44.48 Equinox 3.30 x64mp (time: 101 ms scale: 1.0)
44.46 IvanHoe 9.87b w32 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
44.45 Stockfish 4 64 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
44.44 Strelka R-3-E (time: 42 ms scale: 1.0)
44.40 Naum 4.6 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
44.38 Tankist 3 32-bit (time: 33 ms scale: 1.0)
44.38 Critter 1.01 (time: 35 ms scale: 1.0)
44.37 RobboLito 0.085d1 (time: 27 ms scale: 1.0)
44.36 RobboLito 0.085d8 (time: 27 ms scale: 1.0)
44.32 BlackMamba 1.0 w32 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
44.31 Philou 3.60 (time: 686 ms scale: 1.0)
44.28 Tankist 1.1 32-bit (time: 33 ms scale: 1.0)
44.27 RobboLito 0.10 SMP w32 (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)
44.27 Critter 1.6a 32-bit (time: 100 ms scale: 1.0)